One wonders how much all this enforcement will cost.

One wonders how much all this enforcement will cost.

Doesn't matter, they will just raise the taxes on cigarettes to compensate..

:)

NYC was losing more in enforcement costs than in new tax production when they raised cig taxes last year.

I don't see how NYC has the authority to ban or infringe on internet sales of any "legal" product. Someone in NYC should file suit and take that to court.

how much all this enforcement will cost.

That comment sent me to Victor Hugo's Les Miserables. On page 177 it is written ...

When work is abundant, when the country is rich and happy, the tax is easily paid and costs the state little to collect. It may be said that poverty and public wealth have an infallible thermometer, the cost of tax collection.

If these clowns had any balls they'd make cigs illegal.

Are people prohibited by law from buying smokes in another state and bringing them across the state line?

Smokers are one of the few groups the politically correct crowd deems fair game for demonization, ostensibly because their increased health care costs are passed on to the rest of us. This fallacious argument was blown out of the water a few years ago when a study (publicized on 60 Minutes) examining the situation concluded in fact that the taxes paid by smokers more than covers the increased health care costs associated with smoking. And this study was done years ago when the taxes on cigarettes were much lower. But since everybody hates smokers, NYS figures it can get away trying to balance their bloated budget on their backs without many people complaining.

http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0616story18_news.shtml

N.Y. seeks to cut off sales of cigarettes via Internet

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

(June 16, 2003) — ALBANY — The state will start enforcing a ban on Internet cigarette sales Wednesday, hoping to capture hundreds of millions of dollars a year in lost tax revenue.

The ban is aimed at tax-free Internet retailers on American Indian reservations that have long eluded the state’s reach. But many smokers hope the effort fails. “We’re almost optimistic that they can’t enforce it,” said Audrey Silk, founder of New York City’s smoker-rights group NYC CLASH.

United Parcel Service promises to abide by the ban. But even if tobacco-carrying trucking firms are stopped, the retailers can ship by mail.

“The main beneficiary is going to be the U.S. Postal Service,” said Ali Davoudi, president of the Online Tobacco Retailers Association.

Mailing costs about 40 percent more than the $2.75 charged by UPS to deliver a carton of cigarettes, Davoudi said, but his association will follow the law while suing the state over the ban.

“The states really can’t prevent us from accepting and delivering items that are legal to mail,” said Gerry Kreienkamp of the U.S. Postal Service.

In cases in which the mail is used, the state will focus on the shipper, said spokesman Tom Bergin of the state Taxation and Finance Department.

After repeated and steep increases in state and local cigarette taxes, a carton of Marlboros that sells for $28 to $32 online can sell for $75 in New York City, according to the Online Tobacco Retailers Association. Overseas firms charge as little as $10 a carton for other brands.

Dan Finkle, a distributor to convenience stores and leader of the Fair Application of Cigarette Taxes group, said his distribution business dropped 40 percent -- 20,000 cartons a week at a $500,000 annual loss -- over the last three years because taxes drove smokers to Internet purchases. He said the losses forced a layoff of 25 people from his 170-person work force.

Bergin said state law allows cigarettes to be shipped only to licensed retailers and wholesalers, not to individuals who buy through the Internet or by mail order. The state will first target trucking and parcel delivery firms, then try to work back to the retailers.

“You can discover these kinds of things,” said Bergin.

If they made them illegal, they couldn't tax them, which defeats the government's original intent. These state governments care little about you, and even less about your lungs, it's the money in your pockets they're after.

Federal law dictates that sovereign territories(which a few o the Indian nations are) can ship products which are legal without paying any tax.

So, now the state of New York is violating the treaty powers of the federal government and shafting the Indians. Haven't they done that enough?

Finkle said his distribution business lost 40 percent of its business _ 20,000 cartons a week at a $500,000 annual loss _ over the last three years as he said huge cigarette taxes drove smokers to Internet purchases. He said the losses forced a layoff of 25 people from his 170-person work force.

Thank you, George Pataki.

Are people prohibited by law from buying smokes in another state and bringing them across the state line?

I live in Washington State and here you can bring them across state lines but then you have to pay tax on them using some form. The Indian reservations also say it is the individual's responsibility to pay the tax and even have forms for you. Basically a pack of cigarettes in Washington without their tax stamp is considered contraband.

While I'm sorry for Dan Finkle's loss of business due to the oppresive NYS sales tax on cig (how much of that will go to unemployment benefits of the 25 laid off?), he should be barking up the tree of less taxation.
Course he's doing the sensable thing by going the path of least resistance: he knows the state won't roll back a tax hike.

WA state here too, and I seem to recall police cars sitting outside of Indian reservations looking to stop people and search for cigarettes. What a wonderful state we live in.

Smokers are one of the few groups the politically correct crowd deems fair game for demonization, ostensibly because their increased health care costs are passed on to the rest of us.

Another study showed elderly smokers cost the government less than non-smokers because they die younger.

I think booze causes other people more damage than smokers cause non smokers. Driving drunks kill other people.

I think state legislators in New York as well as in a lot of other states need a basic class in economics. In response to higher prices consumers will either reduce their consumption or seek cheaper substitutes.

High taxs not only will have higher costs for enforcement, but could even cause some people to quit smoking--lowering not raising revenue. High taxes also encourage bootlegging and the purchase from lower taxed sources such as the Indian reservations.

Easy. Get a PO box from MBE in NJ or Conneticut. Then just have them shipped there for pickup. :-)

Hugo also defended paternalistic monopolies in Les Miserables. He thought competition was "ruinous." But I do agree that this (NYC cig) tax has increased to where it is probably impossible to collect it.

"The higher the taxes, the more people will find ways around them, legal or illegal!"

Old hillbilly saying.

Any tax revolt is a good tax revolt.